Mon, Mar. 19th, 2007, 02:46 pm All Information Hitherto and Wherefore Depths of Madness!
I'm going to link to this thread from my main blog -- click on "Depths of Madness" at left, and it takes you to this post. Nifty, eh?
I am maintaining this post for any and all Depths of Madness information. I am here to answer questions about the novel, talk about signings/e-signings, and listen to any and all feedback you might care to offer. Please don't hesitate to tell me how you felt about the novel -- I love hearing what worked and what didn't, and believe you me it all goes into my noggin for writing the next book, I'll tell you.
(Note: This story can be read before, during, or after Depths without any troubles. You'll just understand it differently, based on what you know (or don't, if you haven't read) from the novel.
On that note, some folks have been asking me if the Fox-at-Twilight (the heroine of [i]Depths of Madness[/i]) will be reappearing in any future tale (assuming she survives the book). I can't say definitively, and even if/when I am contracted to write such a book, it will likely be some time before I can talk about it.
HOWEVER
If you like this character and want to hear more about her story (or about those of any of my other characters, for that matter), and would like to help me make it happen (all for free, by the way), let me know. Be vocal. Write reviews on Amazon. Tell your friends. Recommend my books. Come to my signings. Go on sites like Candlekeep (which is an excellent Realms resource, by the way -- see the link at left) and mention it there.
e-SIGNING
Here is a post about the concept of e-signing: buying a signed/personalized copy direct from me:
Basically, let me know that you're interested (my email's listed on my User Info page), and we'll figure out probable shipping costs.
BOOK DISCUSSION
I would be happy to answer any and all questions about the book (e.g., Why did Davoren do that? What color are Slip's eyes? Can I have Twilight's phone number?), but I would appreciate it if:
1) Anything that gives away the plot or some revelation is marked with the word "SPOILER" in the subject heading (so people know to look away if they haven't read it.
2) If it's a particular scene we're talking about, a page reference would be excellent. Pretty sure there's only one version out there, so the page numbers will be consistent.
Finally, thank you for picking up my book, and I hope you enjoy!
I've posted my review on my journal here, epheros, and threw it up on Amazon as well - except give it a day or so for it to clear.
If anyone has any comments on my review then please let me know, I'm still learning how to write reviews and I would like to know what works and what doesn't.
Tue, Mar. 20th, 2007 07:22 pm (UTC) eriksdb: Update on an e-signing
Epheros, Phantom, Dremvek -- your orders are on the way. They went out this morning and should get there, I think, by Thursday.
I found that I'd told you guys the priority shipping rates, so that's what I ended up sending. In future, I'll let you know what the approximate first class (a commensurately slower delivery) rate would be.
Patrik, I need to send yours today or tomorrow when I get a chance to hit the post office teller and not just the automatic machine. Guess that's what happens when one mails a thing to Sweden. :)
Do you have Charactewr sheets on Walker, Fox-at-twilight, and Devoren? Or and of the othe characters for that matter! I would Love to see them. In fact I wish the Waizards books would have mini Character sheets in the back to "see" the charatcer. Please email me (you have logged my Ip address!!)
I'd think Fox would have more of a good component in her make-up... too much pain and angst and self-loathing over her actions (and inactions). Then again, Gargan and FaT (heh) have just re-entered in my book... and I SO hope I don't have to hurt you very VERY badly... I actually like you a lot Erik
More from me soon. No, really. Oh, and tho I don't remember being knifed, Aren says thanks for the compliment, even though it's only the truth.
I think of Twilight as being torn between good and evil, and ending up somewhere in the middle. She tries to do the right thing (generally speaking) and does indeed suffer when she does wrong, but she does wrong a great deal.
A noble heroine who isn't so noble, you know. ;)
And Aren wasn't knifed--Nymia was. I think I must have said something about "the best character" getting killed, in which case I wasn't entirely complete in what I was saying--all the characters are the best characters. ;)
A noble heroine who's results aren't so noble, yes, due to self-doubt, and the things she has suffered from others... identifying with both Twilight and Liet is a troubling way to read the book
Oh, and you said "Sadly, the one who got knifed to death was really the only *good* person in the whole group"... and I figured Aren would be happy to take credit for being that.
Just finished the book, I'll put up a review on Amazon within the next days. Just a couple of things I've been pondering about..
*SPOILER*
1. Is Twilight's real name revealed? the name Ilira is mentioned on the last page, but I was not sure if it was a reference to her or not.
2. I suppose Liet and Gestal co-existed in one body, but at times it really seemed like they were separate, e.g. on p133 when he references "the useless one", and that he stood a pace away from him/her. I suppose it can be a reference to Slip, but I thought that Gestal would mention Gargan then as well, since they went together down the same tunnel.
3. This is really going to make me sound dim, but how did Davoren pick up on the fact that Slip was the traitor by thinking about his missing stilleto knife? I know there are other clues, e.g. the truth spell everyone except her was subjected to, and the Shroud. I just didn't get how he picked up on it from the knife.
All in all, a really great book! I really like mysteries, and this one kept me guessing. Very creepy scenes as well, especially the part with the doll. *shudders*
Ok -- that's mean. Yes, Ilira is (part of) her real name, which (in dream logic) she hadn't "remembered" until that point. In a sense, she wasn't in touch with who she was, at that point.
2) Ah! Ah! "less than a pace away." 0 is less than a pace. ;)
3) The knife itself didn't tell him all that, but it was the piece that let him put it all together -- that got him thinking about it. He'd noted all the other clues, but hadn't put them together yet. You know how sometimes you stumble across a thought, and it leads to another, and another, and you come up with a conclusion that startles you with the implications?
That's one of my "Saw"-inspired scenes. (As in "Saw," the movie.)
The book was interesting, however the amount of typos was a bit much, as well as misreads; such as a broken arm being the right arm, then left, then a leg, then back to being the right arm. Why didn't the editor pick this stuff up????????
Hmm. Sometimes that's *my* mistake, sometimes the editor's, sometimes the copy-editor's, sometimes the type-setter's, or sometimes it's just a printing error.
When one works in publishing (journalistic or commercial), one comes to see that it's impossible to turn out a truly clean and pristine document that's free of those sorts of things.
You seem to be quite specific on the arm/arm/leg/arm event -- when does that transpire? I'll take a look. :)
Right arm "splintered" and "useless" (p. 280): So her swordarm's broken, from the fight with Tlork.
"Could not stand on her broken leg" (p. 282): Yeah, not sure exactly where that came from. I wonder if that's an insertion somewhere in the editing process, or perhaps I had had Tlork break Twilight's leg in an earlier draft but cut it out of the final. Actually, I'm pretty sure that's the case, since later down p. 282, it talks about the potion healing her "broken limbs" -- so her arm is still broken at this point.
(Heh -- I noticed my editor removed a few of Davoren's more colorful threats -- probably a good choice. Skull-buggery is frowned on in the Realms, I see.)
"Her good arm" (283): So clearly she has one good arm, one not so good.
Yes, then I got to the climbing part, and you are indeed right -- it's very unclear what's going on here. The passage about "letting go with her right hand" then swinging on her "ravaged arm" seems to imply that the left arm is the one that's broken. I think this was an editing miscommunication -- good catch!
Just put up a review on Amazon, I hope it'll help to spread the word :) Just a couple of questions that I was pondering:
1. It's obvious that Taslin can sense that Davoren is evil, but she can't sense Slip? Did Slip mask her alignment with a spell? By the way, will there be any write-ups of any more characters from Depths?
2. In the fight with Gestal (262), Gargan is struck by a spell, but it has no effect on him. Is this one of those Power Words, which only affects creatures with a specific alignment?
That's all for now. Thank's again for a great read!
It's obvious that Taslin can sense that Davoren is evil, but she can't sense Slip? Did Slip mask her alignment with a spell?
Bingo. ;)
Taslin couldn't sense that Liet was evil, because he wasn't -- Gestal was. Two different personalities, with two different alignments (NG and CE, respectively).
By the way, will there be any write-ups of any more characters from Depths?
I don't know of any at the moment. But that doesn't mean no.
In the fight with Gestal (262), Gargan is struck by a spell, but it has no effect on him. Is this one of those Power Words, which only affects creatures with a specific alignment?
Why yes, that would be "Word of Chaos," which doesn't harm Gargan because he is Chaotic Good. (Gestal is a specialist in chaos magic.)
Thank's for the answers, and the fast reply. About the write-ups, I'm mostly curious about Slip, as she doesn't seem to be a cleric, yet she still can heal. There's a lot of secrets to that halfling...^^ I wouldn't mind seeing a prequel story about her, she's my favourite character from Depths (aside from Twilight).
Oh yes -- Slip was a fun one to write. My editor, as I recall, really, really liked her, and another reader threw the book across the room and cried out in rage when Slip's eyes went squish. And that ending -- I was happy with how it turned out.
As far as a write-up for Slip goes, I don't have any plans for one to show up. But basically (in game terms), Slip is a favored soul, rather than a cleric (Miniatures Handbook, Complete Divine). Obviously not of Yondalla, as she claims. She also has a couple levels in rogue.
Love your work, Erik. Made the mistake of ordering DoM off of Amazon (love the site, but coulda gotten the book cheaper and faster at a book store), but the anticipation made it so much better.
I picked up DoM to find out more about (of course) Fox-at-Twilight. However, my search for answers, as so many do, turned simply into more questions. And while I enjoy the hunt as much as the next guy, you've given me little to go on. You've said that if you were going to include her in any more novels, you'd expound more on her past and relationship with her...the...uhhh, with Erevan. Is this still true?
Anyway, to sum up, I'm loving learning more about the character, but I'm finding the process a little slow. My enjoyment of DoM was dampened greatly because I don't feel like I know anything more about Fox then I did at the end of tGT. I can respect that if that's what you're going for, but if you're gonna reveal the mystery, give us rules-lawyers and fanatics something to go on!
Thanks for sharing your art with the worlds (the real one and the Realms).
I will go on a limb and say that, yes, that's my intention with Twilight--my concept is, the more you find out about her, the more you want to know (and, hopefully, need to know--Dance, my little addicted puppets! Dance!). I don't want anyone to be able to say "I've got that Twilight all figured out, moving on . . ."
I try to find the balance between revealing and hinting that will keep a reader interested in finding more about the character, without making the reader frustrated. I also want to leave room for theories. I find I enjoy characters who make you "think," rather than characters who make you "know."
(Now of course, if I'm overbalanced toward mystery and away from revealing, well, that's a problem. My apologies if you're finding it frustrating!)
And that's not to say that I don't plan to reveal stuff about Twilight--I'm just not done with her story. And if I told everything there is to tell about her, well, I probably *would* be done with her story. So if I write more about her, yes, I will tell more. Will there still be mystery? Yeah. But it'll be the kind of mystery that makes you want to solve it.
As for Erevan--yes! If WotC wants another Twilight novel (perhaps even a trilogy) and will allow me the license to do it, then yes, there will be stuff revealed about Twilight and Erevan. DoM hints that their relationship is not what was implied in tGT (that Twilight was just yanking Yldar's chain). I intend their relationship to be a complex one. And yes, we'll get through the layers.
Thanks for reading! I'm very pleased you've taken an interest in my work.
Cheers :)
P.S. I noticed you're using Gabe from Penny Arcade as your avatar. Does this mean that you're "the" Mike?
I think you've found a very good blend. I'm not one known for my patience, and that has definitely clouded my judgment a little. I read rulebooks for fun, so I'm used to being presented with a story, and then stats. But if it weren't for the mystery, I wouldn't be anywhere near as intrigued by the character. I'll shamelessly admit I want her write-up so I can adapt her into a character for my D&D group (perhaps a female human, former lover of Mask?) but that's neither here nor there.
What can I do to help make sure the novel (or may the Lady provide, a trilogy) less of a fantasy...err...well, you know what I mean.
Knowing women, especially the type of women who would fall for a trickster god, I can't imagine their relationship being anything but "complex". I look forward to finding out more about it.
Sweet water and light laughter, and all that. I look forward to seeing what else you can do.
P.S. I wish. No, I just happen to love the expression on Gabe's face, especially when you consider he's discussing the virtues of "cold placenta sandwiches the next morning".
P.P.S. Just so you know, I've also read and loved Ghostwalker, so I know you're not a one-trick pony. You delve into a lot of dark stuff a lot of other Realms authors don't. Drizzt is the reason I'm into fantasy, but I've found Salvatore getting a little emotional in his writing lately. It's nice to read something where I know the main character will survive, but not how or who will with her. It adds a real sense of danger when you know all the other characters are expendable (not that I couldn't see you dropping 'Light in a second if it was vital, but not before you got her story out). Anyway, my post-post script is now longer then my script. May the Muse find you well and often. And thanks for the really, almost eerily fast response. I was thinking you might not even read this.
Well, I'm glad you are intrigued. It would appear that I'm doing my job. :)
I'll shamelessly admit I want her write-up so I can adapt her into a character for my D&D group (perhaps a female human, former lover of Mask?) but that's neither here nor there.
These aren't my "actual" stats (which are a little more complicated), but see what you can do with this: Rogue 3 / Swashbuckler 3 / Uncanny Trickster 3 / Shadowdancer 4 / Divine Seeker 4.
It's probably easier to make her a straight rogue.
What can I do to help make sure the novel (or may the Lady provide, a trilogy) less of a fantasy...err...well, you know what I mean.
Well, if you're interested in seeing more about Twilight, I can suggest two courses of action:
1) Writing a review to post on Amazon.com--that tends to be the place where reviews carry the most weight (unless you work somewhere like the Times, etc).
2) Sending a letter to WotC discussing not *me* in specific, but about your interest in the character, how you see this as a powerful addition to Realms fiction, how you're recommending the book to all your friends, how you look forward to them following up the story, etc.
Of these, I particularly recommend the first course.
Knowing women
Heh. Don't we all wish. :)
Knowing women, especially the type of women who would fall for a trickster god, I can't imagine their relationship being anything but "complex". I look forward to finding out more about it.
Indeed! I do hope to explore it, but c'est la vie.
Sweet water and light laughter, and all that. I look forward to seeing what else you can do.
Thank you sir, I shall strive not to disappoint! :)
I wish. No, I just happen to love the expression on Gabe's face, especially when you consider he's discussing the virtues of "cold placenta sandwiches the next morning".
Heh heh! Too right.
(Not that your identity would modify my responses--I was just curious. :D )
Just so you know, I've also read and loved Ghostwalker, so I know you're not a one-trick pony.
Thanks--and I think that novel shows my willingness to shed heroes (what Stephen King calls "killing your darlings") when it suits the story.
It's nice to read something where I know the main character will survive, but not how or who will with her. It adds a real sense of danger when you know all the other characters are expendable (not that I couldn't see you dropping 'Light in a second if it was vital, but not before you got her story out).
I rather think that you can wound a character more by killing those he/she cares about than killing him/her. (And yes, I have no objection to killing Twilight off, so long as it serves the story, though I do confess that I rather like the character.)
And thanks for the really, almost eerily fast response. I was thinking you might not even read this.
Meh, you just got lucky--a fully constructed, good comment, which I happened to note on one of my internet sessions. I must have logged on just a short while after you made the post.
Just finished Depths of Madness and it has been an entirely enjoyable read from beginning to end! It has been quite some time since I've enjoyed a book, and character personalities, this much. I hope to see much more from you in the (near) future.
Mon, Aug. 18th, 2008 09:50 pm (UTC) (Anonymous): Loved it!
Erik,
I loved the book. It's been a while since I ventured out into the unknown and took a chance on reading something from an author I hadn't read before. As it happened I found myself with a large amount of time on my hands at a local hotel/waterpark with my kids. I ditched them briefly and made my way to the book store. I had decided that I would purchase a copy of the "Halfling's Gem" (I lost my original) and read it again. As luck would have it they were all out. So I decided to take a chance on a new author.
I looked at quite a few different books. I Liked the brief description on the back of the book so I read a few random pages to make sure I didn't hate your writing style. That's when I saw the name "Liet." Being a fan of Dune and having that name as my Main Toon in World of Warcraft, I took it as a sign.
I am glad I read it. I just finished the last chapter in the bathroom here at work - shhhh don't tell anyone.
The Rope Golem Scene was great! I had a great visual. I even decsribed it to my wife - who promptly ignored my geekiness. I must say that there were a few times a was a bit confused, but I reread pages and got it straight. I have trouble with names.
I wanted to beat the crap out of Davoren - he reminds me of people I meet in chat rooms.
So - How can you kill a acid/fire resistant troll?
Was it coincidence that there were two characters having eyes of differing shades or was this a hint that they were constructs?
Was Liet a construct?
I plan on picking up a copy of GW soon. Thanks a lot for the fun read.
Yes, I shamelessly stole the name Liet from Dune. One of my favorite characters. Totally pwnd by the Harkonnen. Such bastards. :)
Speaking of bastards, I'm glad I inspired such hatred toward Davoren. That was 100% my intention.
If you're so inclined, you might consider writing a review on Amazon. But that's the one instance of shameless plugging I'll mention. ;)
I'll answer your questions, if you like!
Was Liet a construct?
No. He was a real, flesh-and-blood person. It's debatable whether he was the original personality or Gestal was (see below), and it's debatable which would make it more tragic.
Interesting that you got the construct idea . . . what suggested that to you?
Was it coincidence that there were two characters having eyes of differing shades or was this a hint that they were constructs?
Which two characters do you mean of the different eyes? Because Liet and Gestal had two different eye colors, because they were the same person.
Dimly I recall that I intended to have Slip have that same thing, but that was to tie her into Gestal/Liet. As if I needed to do that more.
So - How can you kill a acid/fire resistant troll?
Well, that's like asking "how do you tune a saxophone?" (and I played one for about 7 years)
Sorry, I was confused about the eyes. I was thinking Tlork had eyes of differing color. I don't know where I got that idea.
as for the construct idea - I was guessing that Tlork was a "Frankenstein's Monster" of sorts and the differing eye color (which I was mistaken about) was because the eyes came from different donors. I thought that perhaps Liet to was a construct and his reluctance to remove his shirt in that first steamy scene was due to him not wanting to expose his seems. Yeah it was a stretch but who knows? I thought that maybe Gestal had created Liet and inhabited his body. That would explain why he acted so young for his age. Maybe he was only created 10 or so years ago and though his constructed body showed 30's, his mind was younger.
Did you ever read any of the Dark Sun books? Remember the Character called Sorak - The Tribe of One trilogy by Simon Hawke? He had multiple personalities and each one was a different class.
I'm glad to meet another fan of Dune. That series really had my head spinning.
I haven't read that particular series of DS novels, though I know which ones you're talking about.
Liet did, indeed, purposefully act far younger than his age. Glad you caught that!
As for why, I seem to think that the Liet personality just stopped maturing when he divided, or something like that. DID people often have various personalities that are of various ages and maturity levels.
